Podcast
Karin Hurt, CEO of Let’s Grow Leaders and author of the book, “Powerful Phrases For Dealing With Workplace Conflict,” joins the podcast to discuss what she’s learned about addressing conflict with care-filled words and building brighter, bolder cultures in the office.
Listen: Get Reworked Full Episode List
“If you both care about something really passionately, you're gonna have conflict. It's how you manage the conflict, and so care filled words can make all the difference. And that's really why we wrote powerful phrases for dealing with workplace conflict, so that you can have more productive conflict up, down and sideways in your teams.”
Highlights of the conversation include:
- The four dimensions of productive conflict.
- The role that building human connections plays.
- How hybrid and remote work have reshaped our approaches to conflict.
- What can be done at the organizational level to normalize disagreements between teams and colleagues.
Plus, hosts Siobhan Fagan and Nidhi Madhavan chat with Karin about why traditional approaches to providing feedback (“I” statements, sh*t sandwiches) don’t work, the G.O.A.T phrases to use instead, and overcoming physical barriers in a remote environment.
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Show Notes
- Karin Hurt on LinkedIn
- Karin's book, available May 14: "Powerful Phrases for Dealing with Workplace Conflict: What to Say Next to Destress the Workday, Build Collaboration, and Calm Difficult Customers"
- Related free resources: Conflict and Collaboration Resource Center
- Karin's Courage Coach column
Episode Transcript
Note: This transcript has been edited for space and clarity
Siobhan Fagan: This episode goes out to anybody who had an arch-nemesis in the workplace, to someone who got ticked off when somebody heated up fish in the microwave, to the person who just didn't know what that other person was trying to say. That's right, we're here to talk about conflict. Why don't you tell us about our guest, Nidhi.
Nidhi Madhavan: Absolutely Siobhan. Karin Hurt is the CEO of Let’s Grow Leaders and an international training firm focused on human-centered leadership development. As a former Verizon executive, we brought her on today to discuss her new book "Powerful Phrases for Dealing with Workplace Conflict: What to Say Next to Destress the Workday, Build Collaboration and Calm Difficult Customers." She wrote this book with her business partner and husband David Dye. Karin is also a regular columnist for Reworked where she writes the bi-weekly advice column Courage Coach.
Siobhan: Today marks the last episode that we're recording with our producers Jesse McQuarters and Jennifer Nelson of Audiodentity. I just wanted to take a moment to thank them for all the work that they've done over these last few years to make this podcast sound so great. Thanks, guys.
Nidhi: Thanks, Siobhan. So are you ready to get started?
Siobhan: Heck, yeah.
Nidhi: Let's Get Reworked.
Let's Talk Conflict
Nidhi: Hi, Karin. It's wonderful to have you on. And we're excited to chat about your new book, "Powerful Phrases for Dealing with Workplace Conflict: What to Say Next to Destress the Workday, Build Collaboration and Calm Difficult Customers."
So to kick it off, let's talk about the word conflict. It feels like conflict is very omnipresent right now. What is your research found about the level of discontent that's happening within our workplace?
Karin Hurt: Well, thank you so much for having me. And yeah, as we were setting out to write this book, we were really curious, is conflict getting worse? Is it actually getting worse? Or is it just a different kind of conflict? The answer is both.
We did an extensive research study, which we call the world workplace conflict and collaboration survey, which was in 46 countries, all 50 states 5000 participants, and we asked, are you experiencing more conflict than you had before the pandemic? And 70% said that they are experiencing the same or more or significantly more than they had in the past.
And it also really seems to be a new breed of conflict. When we looked at some of the examples, 27% said, the conflict is coming because of all of this uncertainty and change. And there's just so much going on, I'm overwhelmed. Another 27% said poor management practices. And then 21% talked about mental health challenges and anxiety coming out of the pandemic.
And so a lot of that is expectations around remote work. And do we have a shared vision of what success looks like, and managers and teams are working to figure all of that out.
What's Driving Conflict in the Workplace?
Nidhi: That's interesting. You mentioned things like the pandemic having an impact. Do you think there are any other broader societal issues that are driving conflict to start playing out within the workplace?
Karin: So certainly there are all of the social dynamics, the political dynamics, the social unrest, all of the conflicts that we're seeing around the world with wars and elections and diversity of viewpoints. And it is nearly impossible to keep those conversations completely out of the workplace.
And, we have also seen that people are afraid to have the conversations and so they don't know what to do. And so they either avoid the conversations altogether, which in some cases is fine, until it all bursts out and it comes out in an ill-equipped way, which is damaging relationships.
And then of course, social media, and all the algorithms that are fueling what we see is only aggravating the situation. We call these conflict cocktails, you know, so an example of a conflict cocktail is tired workers in an exhausted economy, right, so you've got understaffing, so you have frontline workers working in retail or working in restaurants, and they're understaffed, so they're overworked and they're stressed. And then you have customers coming in, and they're frustrated because of long wait times or tip creep and those kinds of things. And so now you have a conflict cocktail, where everyone is on edge.
Or another example of this is where you've got managers that are moving so fast, because they have so much going on, that they're not slowing down and inviting people into the conversation. So employees are feeling invisible and ignored, and it's only aggravated by the fact that so many people are working from home and are already feeling that sense of isolation.
Conflict Can Be Good
Siobhan: Karin, I love this topic, and I think that probably all of us cumulatively can feel the tension in our shoulders weighing us down from the last few years. So I completely understand why this topic would come up at this time.
But I feel like there's this generalization that conflict is inherently bad. So I'm wondering what you have to say about that.
Karin: Absolutely. The entire premise of our book is that conflict is not inherently bad, and you absolutely need healthy tension, and diversity of thought and diversity of conversation, in order to have innovation.
Our most recent book, prior to this book, was all about psychological safety and courage and innovation. How do you tap into the best ideas of every member of your team? That book is "Courageous Cultures," so we're big believers in that. David and I are a husband and wife team who write our books together, we run a global leadership company together, and we have conflict all the time.
And it's because I have a different view of, you know, I've got different responsibilities. I'm looking outward, really strategically, he's got to operationalize everything. And to do both of those, well, if you both care about something really passionately, you're gonna have conflict.
It's how you manage the conflict, and so care-filled words can make all the difference. And that's really why we wrote "Powerful Phrases for Dealing with Workplace Conflict," so that you can have more productive conflict up down and sideways in your teams.
Nidhi: Yeah, you know, it's interesting, you mentioned that there can be a positive side to conflict.
I'm also curious what this means for individual people in their capacity to deal with conflict, do you think there are certain people who just struggle with it more than others due to, you know, a number of factors like how they were raised their values or anything like that?
Karin: I think most human-beings and and this plays out in the research, struggled with this. And it's easier to stay silent.
And one of the things we asked in the workplace conflict and collaboration survey was, tell us about a significant conflict that you had in your career. And what advice would you give your former self if you were faced with this conflict again?
And the two big answers, the first one was, 55% said, 'I wish I would have been more patient, I wish I was more calm.' Now, in order to be patient and calm, you need tools to be able to navigate these conversations. And then 21% said, 'I wish I had talked about it sooner.'
And it's interesting, as we have been playing out and using these tools in organizations, where we say, well, how did it feel once you have the conversation? The number one answer is, 'I felt relief.'
And so that's what's on the other side of this, if you can have some words, to have the conversation to have the courage. And what I would say to any of your listeners if they're wrestling with, well, yeah, but I don't really want to bring this up. And you know, I'm not going to do it — it's a can of worms. I would ask, Why does what you have to say matter? How are you going to feel if you are heard, what's at stake, if you do stay silent?
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Creating Connections to Deal With and Overcome Conflict
Siobhan: I think that part of what happens with conflict, and a lot of it is, you know, the result is people are avoiding these difficult conversations, it's actually something that comes up on Reworked a lot where at many levels, people become uncomfortable having difficult conversations.
So I'm wondering what kind of coping mechanisms people can have to avoid shutting down or to avoid the lizard brain fight or flight response, so it's either shutdown or full on aggro to conflict when it arrives?
Karin: We talk about four dimensions of really productive conflict. And it starts with creating a human connection. And this is really connection before you are in the conflict for one. And then how do you establish connection when you are in a difficult or tense situation?
So thinking about how are you proactively building relationships, getting to know the people that you're working with as human beings?
So imagine you're in a conflict with a co-worker, let's call him Joe. Now imagine that, Joe, you're pretty sure he just stole your idea. So you're ticked. Now, if Joe is an inherently nice guy who got you out of a jam the other day when your little boy was sick, and you just told your boss how good you were at pivot tables, and you think he stole your idea, you may be like, well, gosh, let me show up curious here. Let me give him the benefit of the doubt. But if you have no relationship with Joe, and Joe's just a guy who you've only talked with over Slack, you're going to trigger more quickly. Building those trusted connections is a really good start.
And then there are a couple of what we call G.O.A.T. (Greatest Of All Time) powerful phrases that we have for each of these dimensions. And some goat powerful phrases to establish connection is. So imagine you're in a frustrated conversation and somebody comes to you and they're like, I'm really ticked off about this. One thing you can say is calmly as calmly as you can be, because it's like Jujitsu, the more escalated people are, the calmer you can be, is just simply say, tell me more. Tell me more.
So now you've just showed that I really am curious about what's actually happening here. Or you can do what we call a reflexive connect where you name the emotion sounds to me, like you're really frustrated. Is that right? What's going on? Or another one is to really start the conversation and connection, I really care about you, I care about the work that we're doing together. And I am confident that we can find a solution that we all can agree to here.
So when you say things like that, it calms the conversation down, it gets people out of that amygdala brain and enables to really start to have a conversation. So that's connection. And then we've got so got three other dimensions that I can share as well.
Sh*t Sandwiches Just Don't Work
Nidhi: Yeah, you know, I'm definitely interested in learning about these phrases. But what it does bring up for me is some of the more traditional approaches we've heard and people have told us to use in conflict. So I'm talking about things like the 'I' statements, or to put it eloquently the 'sandwich mode' of giving feedback. Why do you think some of those aren't necessarily working for us?
Karin: Yeah, so let's talk about both of those. So 'I' statements if executed, exactly as they're intended, are fantastic. Because what they do is put the onus on you, you're not telling somebody how they feel you're not telling something what to do, you're owning your conversation, which is exactly why that technique has been taught for decades.
Here is the problem when most human beings try to execute on the if statement, because they're ticked right. So they say 'I,' and then they don't know exactly what to say after that. So I Well, I'm really angry about this. And I think you're being a jerk. Now I think you're being a jerk still starts with 'I.' So if you can hone into the intention of that is coming at something from your sharing your perspective, and then showing up super curious about what the other person has to say that it's helpful.
One of the other challenges with 'I' statements is sometimes it's just people are so bent on talking about exactly how they're feeling with their 'I', that they forget the curiosity, which is stepping into the other person's shoes, showing up with empathy and being genuinely curious about what is going on, because you're so stuck in your own 'I'.
Now, the sh*t sandwich, right, the sandwich technique, which is, you say something really positive, then you say what you really want to say, and then you say something else really positive.
So imagine I was giving feedback to David, my husband and business partner, I could say, hey, David, I want to really thank you so much for really preparing us for the Southeast Asia tour, these programs are really coming together, I know, you've really put in a lot of extra hours. And I want to thank you, but your leadership is derailing our company, but you're kind of hot. Now what is he going to take away from that?
Siobhan: Well, I think he's gonna be happy about that, won't he?
Karin: If you were listening, he probably say please, say I'm hot, right. So that's the problem with it, right? Because you don't know what to take away, either, you're going to really hone in on the positive, either, you're going to really hone in on the negative. And we're really big believers of giving people all the feedback, they need the positive and the constructive, but not necessarily in the same sentence.
Now, I always want to add this caveat to this because there is something which we call an open face sandwich, which that's appropriate when somebody is coming to you.
So if I said, hey, do you have any feedback that could make my writing a more effective in my Courage Coach column? Now, that would be a really great time for you to say, well, I'll tell you what this approach seems to be really resonating with our readers. And here are a couple of suggestions that I think could make things even better. Right?
That's a reasonable approach because I'm coming to you, but if you're trying to get somebody's attention on something, and you really want to have a conversation about a topic, muddying it up, which is human nature, because we all want to be liked, does convolutes the conversation.
Siobhan: Karin, I too, think you're hot and I think your husband is hot. Is that appropriate right now?
So I want to bring it back. You were talking about the different dimensions of conflict and you talked about connection then I know that there are three others. Can you go into those a little bit? I'm sure our audience wants to hear those.
The Role of Clarity and Understanding in Conflict Resolution
Karin: Absolutely. So once you have connections, the next one is really clarity. And this is do we have a shared understanding of what success is?
And so most conflict comes from an expectation violation of some sort, right? I thought that you were going to empty the dishwasher before you left for work, I thought you would clean up your coffee mugs in the conference room, I thought that you would double check your data before you send it to me. And now I'm looking at all this data. And I gotta check all the formulas. That's an expectation violation.
So the more clear, we like to say, one conversation about expectations can prevent 14 why didn't you conversations? So a couple of powerful phrases some GOATS here, what would a successful outcome do for you? And this one is really powerful, because we're not even just talking about success. It's also tapping into the underlying motivations of why someone is so interested in this outcome.
Another one is check for understanding what I hear you say is, and then you recap what you heard the person say. Do I have that right?
And then another one is, let's start with what we agree on this is can be really powerful if you are in a conflict where you have completely different points of view, the quicker you can get clarity on your common ground, then you can identify where you really need to spend the energy. You can say, oh, yeah, well, that's a non-diversity, right? Like we absolutely both agree that we need to have a 100% great customer experience here. All right, we agree on that. Now, let's talk about the how we get there. Now we've narrowed the conversation. So that's clarity.
And then the next one is curiosity. And this is so important. So it's, are we really showing up curious about other people's perspectives, and different approaches? So a couple of goats here, I'm curious how this looks, from your perspective. What do you suggest we do next? And what can I do to support you right now.
And then the last one is commitment. And this is where we see a lot of conflicts go sideways, and not be as productive as they could be. This is why you have the Groundhog Day of conflict conversations where you keep having the same conversation again and again, because you don't bring it to closure. So a couple of GOATS here, what's one action we can both agree to as a next step? Or to recap we've agreed to do this is that your understanding?
And then this is really important. This is what we call a scheduled to finish. Let's schedule time to talk about this again, and see how our solution is working. If it's not working, you don't have to get the courage to re surface the conversation again, you've already got it on your calendar.
Fear of Confronting Conflict
Nidhi: Thanks so much for that I love these idea of the GOAT phrases, I think those are things that you don't necessarily see, talked about as much as things like these 'I' statements.
I do want to talk about one topic that you bring up a lot. It's this idea of managing up. And I think that's a really common phrase. That's what we tell a lot of people to do in their roles. What would you say to an employee who maybe might feel too afraid to bring up conflict or even escalate a difficult situation with their manager out of fear of reprisal or backlash? What do you think they can do in that situation?
Karin: Yeah, so of course, that's a good question for Courage Coach, really thinking about your bigger why? So what is it that you really want your boss to think feel or do or say, as a result of this conversation? Why is what you have to say important, what's at stake, if you don't speak up and have this conversation, and if you are grounded in a good why, it's statistically likely that your manager is a reasonable human being also doing the very best that they can. And they're also imperfect.
And then if you approach them with genuine connection, hey, I care about you. I care about this relationship, I really want to be a rock star in my role. And I have some things that are getting in the way, do you have a minute? Or if even if you are showing up curious, you know, hey, I don't think this project is going as well as I think it could or I'm seeing a lot of tension on our team or I don't think our meetings are as effective as they could be. I'm curious now put in a GOAT. I'm curious how this looks from your perspective. And likely they're experiencing some similar frustration. And they may say, yeah, I know, our meetings are a hot mess. What do you think we should do? Do you have any suggestions? Right?
So it's starting with that human connection, building a shared understanding of success, and then really showing up curious and inviting the conversation.
The Power of Body Language and the Challenge in a Hybrid Work World
Siobhan: Karin, I'm curious, you're talking about the importance of human connection and at one point in the book you discuss the power of body language as part of handling conflict.
So in the context of our current hybrid, remote, etc workplaces, is this more challenging? And what can people do to kind of overcome those potential barriers?
Karin: Yeah, so the first thing is that I think a lot of conflict is coming, because we can't see each other's body language at all. Because people are opting out, right, they're opting out of turning their cameras on when they have a difficult conversation.
The news is filled with people who are being fired in ridiculous ways, or laid off over Slack or Zoom or yeah, without even a camera. And so the first thing I would say is, the higher the intensity of the conversation, the higher the bandwidth of the communication is that you need to have. So the medium is the message. So if you have something really important to say, look, the person in the eye at least through a camera, and don't hide away from that. So that's the first thing.
The other I would say is to be really super intentional about how you're having the conversations and, and this takes practice, looking right into the camera, as opposed to watching yourself on the screen. And if you're struggling with this, the good news is you can actually record a meeting and watch how you're showing up. And we can't do that in in-person meeting. But you can have lots of opportunities to see what your face is doing.
But I would say the other thing is just because you're sitting in your home, does not mean that people are not forming an impression of you through your body language, through your facial expressions. So how you approach what your body is doing? Do you have an open stance? Watch what your face is doing.
One of the biggest challenges that I see with some executives that I coach, is that when they really start to concentrate on something very deliberate, like they're really thinking through something, it's happens, especially with people who are very introverted, their face can get like this resting face, and you would never notice that in a big conference room. But because they're so upfront, they either look like they're spaced out, not paying attention, don't care or even angry. And that is not the intention at all.
So I think that's also if you are with someone who may be really it's very thoughtful is thinking through, pay attention to what your facial expression might be doing. And you can even glance on the screen and say, just from time-to-time and say, How's this looking to the people on the other side of this camera?
Conflict in the Hybrid Workplace
Nidhi: So Karin, it's interesting that we bring up the conversation around hybrid and remote environments, because I think one thing I've seen is that there's so much conflict that happens and gets mediated naturally, within, in-person work environment, do you find it that being in a remote environment would make it easier for employees to run or hide away from conflict?
Karin: I think it's both, I think it is easier to avoid it for a while. But if there is real conflict, if there's diversity of perspective, like good conflict or bad conflict, but if there is a diversity of perspective, if there are differences of opinion that really need to be thought through, if there are ideas that need to be hashed out, and people just say, I'm going to avoid it, two things are going to happen. One, you're going to lose the innovation, you may have less conflict, but you're also going to have worse results. Or just because your stuff a conflict down does not make it go away. And you know, if your uncle's ever thrown a turkey off the balcony and Thanksgiving, you know what I'm talking about, right? But it's, oh, we're just playing nice. We're just playing nice. We're just playing nice until somebody blows a gasket.
So avoiding the conflict isn't a solution that you're better off thinking about what people's advice to the former self is, is to have the conversation sooner, before it escalates into a bigger conflict. So that's the first thing.
But the other is, I think that the remote work is giving us an entirely new set of expectations that are unclear. So let's just go back to the cameras on example. You know, maybe you've got one person on your team who says, you know, what we should always have our cameras on, always have our cameras on, because it is polite. It's the only way we're going to build genuine human connection. And you've got somebody else in your team who's like, I'm willing to put my cameras on for customer things. I'm willing to put them on if I'm doing the team builder, but my goodness, I have zoom fatigue. I don't want to put my cameras on.
Now, if you've got no corporate policy, or you've got no team agreement on when you put cameras on, we could be in conflict and I am making judgments about like how rude are you? You don't even care enough about me to put your camera on. Right? It's already a conflict because We haven't had a conversation.
But if we can just escalate and say, how are we going to do things around here on a road environment, or we work office occasional, you can work anywhere you want on the days that you're out of the office, I don't care where you work, so long as get your work done.
Well, that works great, until your coworker who by the way has not returned your emails that and you're waiting on responses to get the work that you need done, posts on LinkedIn that they're working from a petting zoo, and they've got a pony, are petting a pony on one hand and a Zoom call on the other. And they're posting and they're responding to everybody else's comments on their wonderful LinkedIn picture. Right, that's conflict. It's a new set of conflict that we haven't had to have before.
Siobhan: Karin, I love that you brought this up from sort of the one-on-one level to the team level, because I was sitting here wondering if there is something that can be done at an organization-wide level in terms of corporate culture, etc. that normalizes disagreements and makes conflict an acceptable way of communicating, do you have any tips in that area?
Karin: Yeah. So the first thing I would say is, the clearer you can be around expectations. That is the first, can you equip people about how to create the norms of their team? Do you have policies? Are you clear on policies? Are you expecting people to just figure it out for themselves?
And if you're expecting the teams to figure these things out for themselves, that's very empowering. But then give them the skills to have the conversation. So that's the first thing.
And then, most people have not been trained on any level of how to have these productive conversations. So I think they should just buy a copy of "Powerful Phrases for Dealing with Workplace Conflict" for every single employee in their organization. I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding.
But clearly, if you can help people say their dimensions of conflict, if you are in a conflict, how can you connect? How can you get to clarity, a shared vision of success? How do you show up really curious and these conversations and teach people about how to get to commitment? These are not complicated techniques, just give them some of these G.O.A.T. powerful phrases, it can really make a difference.
Siobhan: Karin, I have to ask, I actually meant to ask a follow up earlier, did you have an uncle who threw a turkey off of a balcony?
Karin: No.
When to Walk Away
Siobhan: I'm curious at what point though, you mentioned like there is a point where you just have to step away, where you just have to kind of be like, You know what, this is not going to go anywhere? What are the red flags, that you're not going to be able to resolve a conflict?
Karin: I think one is if there is a real genuine values clash, you're not going to convince somebody if you have a completely different view on a critical core value. That's where one of the times so you can say, okay, am I going to stay in this relationship, am I going to stay in this conflict am I going to stay in this job, if there is an absolute disconnect.
The other is if it is really tearing you up, and just completely damaging your mental health. Now, I will say this, though, with that one. Because I really do believe that you've got to keep your bigger perspective in the world, in mind, but I had this incident just a couple of weeks ago. And one of the things that I do for one of our bigger clients is once a quarter, I go down and I have office hours and people can come in and just like Courage Coach, they could just ask for a friend, they just ask any questions that they have. And I just do real time coaching with people.
And this guy who is about 50 years old. So he's a seasoned manager. He's been a manager for a very long time. And he comes literally bursting through my door. And he says, Karin, I just got an email from David, and it's got Powerful Phrases for Dealing with Workplace Conflict and his signature, which means you have a new book, and do you have a book in your purse? Because I need it right now?
And I'm like, Ah, no, it's not it's not out yet. But what's your concern? And he just went on, and he said, I have lost sleep over this situation for three months. Now, that's mental health, right? That is not good. And this thing was tearing him up. And I talked to him and I said, you know, because I knew the other human involved. And I said, you know, you both want exactly the same thing, right, created a clarity of what a successful outcome would be, what do you want? And he told me, and I said, I know and I said, guess what, sort of she. And then I gave him a couple of ways to approach the conversation. He went and had that conversation, and then he came back. And he's like, oh, my gosh, I wasted three months being sick to my stomach, and when great, I won't cry, I feel relieved.
So that's why I just stopped there because sometimes it's really destroying you. You should quit the conflict, but also make sure you've done all the things. So that's the the next thing I would say is, have you done everything you can? Can you in good conscience say that you have taken a care filled approach to the situation? And if you have done that, right, and you really have tried and is still can't resolve it, then maybe it's time to walk away.
Nidhi: Thank you, Karin. I think that's pretty enlightening to know, I think a lot of us struggle to know when we need to walk away.
What Would a Successful Outcome Do for You?
Nidhi: Before we wrap up here. You know, we've talked a lot and you know, your book is called Powerful Phrases. What is your favorite out of all the ones that we've discussed? Is there one that you find most helpful, or something that someone can keep in mind or in their back pocket for when they need it?
Karin: Yeah, so the book itself has 300 powerful phrases, and it's got a whole menu. So what do you do if you're dealing with a micromanager? What if you do if somebody steals credit for your work? What if you're working in a matrix environment? What...? So there's really very specific phrases for different situations?
So I would say, you know, I have my favorites for all those situations. But I think my biggest one, that of all the GOATS, is 'What would a successful outcome do for you?'
Because when I have really slow down and ask that, I'm always surprised that there is a different view on the situation that I might not have considered. And I think I'm solving one problem in the conversation, but there's a whole other layer that really matters more. And the quicker you can get to that conversation, the more productive it will be.
Siobhan: Karin, I love it. And I also love that you just said that you have to slow down to actually ask that question. And I think that probably a lot of the conflict that we're having in the office these days is because we're all rushing, we all have so much pressure. And we don't actually take that time to sort of step back and breathe. So thank you for that reminder.
Karin: Yes, and that was the number one answer in the research, right? I wish I had stayed calm, and you can't stay calm when you're sprinting. Right.
Siobhan: No, absolutely. So if our audience wants to find you online, where are the best places that they can do that?
Karin: Well, for the Reworked audience, every two weeks, I write a column called The Courage Coach, and I run an organization called, Let’s Grow Leaders. And the book is "Powerful Phrases for Dealing with Workplace Conflict: What to Say Next to Destress the Workday, Build Collaboration, and Calm Difficult Customers." And you can get that anywhere that books are sold.
Siobhan: Fantastic. We will be linking to all of them, you can bet that we will absolutely be linking to your Courage Coach column. And let me say to anybody listening, if you have a question for Karin, there is a way to email her through that column. So please do.
Thank you, Karin. Good luck with the book. And thank you so much for joining us today.
Karin: It's been absolutely my pleasure. Thank you so much.
Siobhan: If you have a suggestion or a topic for a future conversation, I'm all ears. Please drop me a line at [email protected]. Additionally, if you liked what you heard, post a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you may be listening. Please share Get Reworked with anyone you think might benefit from these types of conversations. Find us at reworked.co. And finally, follow us at Get Reworked on Twitter as well. Thank you again for exploring the revolution of work with me, and I'll see you next time.
